Wonderful, thoughtful program on Dick Gordon's (NPR) program, The Story, on a Christian religion reporter for the LA Times who, through the course of covering the church came to such horrifying revelations about the amount of corruption in modern religion that it led him to question his own faith. Not to be missed by thinking men.
It's crazy - so soon after seeing Ivanhoe and its references to the same institutionally corrupt Cathlolic church that enacted the Inquisition, here we are in the 21st century with a (still disgracefully undercovered by the media) Catholic priest sexual abuse scandal in the midst of a church leadership that willfully covered up the truth and an entire denomination (for the most part) in a tremendous amount of self-delusion and denial. And the condoning and lack of outcry by "mainstream" clergy over televangelists & faith healers and their continual preying on a gullible (and often financially vulnerable) public? Ah, how little has really changed.
And, as I look about at the state of the world's "great" religions - specifically, the ones of the monotheistic variety, war, war, hate, hate, war, war, hate.
Most of my Christian aquaintances would probably advise me that the various failings of the church around the world are failings of men, not of God. But as William Labdell (the reporter in the program) reasons, aren't these God's institutions? For them to fail so miserably in carrying out God's will? One must begin to question whether this remains God's chosen vehicle at this point, anyway. Religion is a failure. Whether it be of God's design or man's.
I continue to have spiritual moments and a general regard for some sort of unifying oneness. But it's hard for me not to think that's not just so much hopefulness. And as for religion? I think I'd have to check "none of the above."
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Welcome to the club. I heard the gentlemen of which you speak talk to some other NPR show. He had quite the roller coaster ride. Very interesting.
I find the whole notion of 'hopefulness' or wishful thinking to be a very persuasive one. It has come to strike me as a weird combination of optimism and selfishness, where despite all the evidence to the contrary you really look forward to the afterlife and even worse, that perhaps you are owed it.
Maybe it's my increasingly cynical nature, but I find myself more and more convinced that religion is indeed the 'opiate of the masses' or possibly worse, that it is a lever used by the power hungry to wield power over the weak-minded.
That's not to say that there aren't people whose lives are made better by their beliefs and who do more good in the world as a result of it, but by and large I would call religion such as it has existed through human history more of a detriment to human advancement than a benefit.
There was an interesting notion I heard a while back that ideas, like living things, may also be under the sway of evolutionary principles. Basically, that the human mind is only capable of dealing with a finite number of ideas, and so ideas compete against one another for supremacy.
I heard that same thing. NPR also, as I recall.
It goes without saying (or should), that there are people that have lived and people that continue to live that are good emissaries for faith.
But in the end, all evidence seems to suggest that religious institutions are just like all other human contructs, in that human failing & weaknesses corrupt them from within. It's just even more ironically disappointing than the realm of government or corporations or whatever, because of the whole "doing God's will" thing. I do think that it's giving people's intentions a little too much credit to suggest that they're always striving to do what's right and just falling short, however. It seems to me that there's a lot - A LOT - of people (and always has been) that willfully use their position within a church community to mask their own efforts at obtaining power, wealth, and-or poon-tang.
There is an undeserved amount of deference given to anyone who professes religious beliefs, completely removing any sense that they need to prove themselves.
The Catholic notion that the Pope in infallible is at the top of that list, but the trickle down effect has permeated our society so completely that to call yourself an atheist is to close nearly every door of advancement, particularly politically.
You then find people defining their religions in the most narrow sense:
Christians will allow the killing of any number of birthed humans but will not tolerate the killing of any prior to birth.
Muslims seem to see Islam as simply a manual to fight the 'infidel' and oppress others.
One thing I've always despised - even when I was "in the fold;" and that's the idea that people are incapable of guiding their actions with their own conscience and intellect. The idea that you need a set of religious beliefs/rules to make you not run naked down the streets, raping and shooting.
Seems like a very depressing view of humanity, that we're THAT weak, have SUCH a propensity for awfulness.
Of course...all the pieces fit...perhaps the reason so many people of religious faith are bastards is because they are people that ARE incapable of governing their own behavior, thus looking for help from without (e.g. religion). Priest pedophiles, hoping that turning to religion will help keep themselves in line. That sort of thing. Of course, it's all folly, and you are what you are.
That's one depressing view.
The other depressing view is that everybody needs something. Lance Armstrong needs biking. It's what sustains him. Some people have helping cats as their thing. Others, who've got nothing, turn to religion. If religion weren't around, they'd figure out something self. But it is, and so they go that route. Much easier on the brain to dedicate yourself to something where somebody will tell you what to do, and much easier on the consciense to figure that God will sort everything out in the end, anyway.
Sorry for going down such a negative road - especially to any Christians that may have read this far without bailing. But I'm really, really in a dark place right now with respect to religion. It's got a lot to answer for, by my way of thinking.
Isn't this all just T-clog bait?
Actually, I will second your stance, Dan, that people of faith (disclosure: I count myself among them) often set aside any intellectual capacity or desire in order to propogate the Text. That's very common, and it's bullshit.
I've been stuck on the concept of "God's Will", particuarly when it comes to what we, as humans, created for ourselves. It is not God's Will, for example, if anyone dies in Iraq.
T-Clog bait: totally not intended to be, and I hope he doesn't feel as though this is a personal attack in any way. It's just an issue that burns pretty strongly in my heart; contributing a bit to "The Pall" (future post).
The whole "God's will" thing. That's actually kind of my point. I think it's finally my answer to the stock Christian answer to "why would God allow such things to happen?" The stock response always being, "Because people have free will, etc. etc." My new response is "Well, then. What's the point?"
It's my question to God, in fact. God: if you're incapable of creating people that can even pull off "Love your neighbor as yourself," what's the point of religion at all?
I think that most of organized religion is essentially equivalent to the boogeyman story. Be good, or else you will suffer.
It keeps children in line, for a while, but then it breaks down as they are exposed to the realities of the world and learn the real consequences (or lack) of their actions.
Separate from this, church going provides a sense of community, and there's not much inherently bad with that, at least as long as it stays away from cult mentality. And there's always that danger because it's a hierarchy, where one person is looked to as the principal holder of knowledge. The same is true for monotheisms in general, worship focuses on one being. That being takes responsibility away from the worshipers, allowing them freedom to fuck up. Jesus, while great in many ways, is perhaps the best example. He died for our sins.
Thanks dude, now every time I do something shitty I can feel some small measure of consolation that my sin has been diluted. It's not enough to empathize with others and not do shitty things to them, so I'm glad big J did the heavy lifting for me.
I'm not sure that's what Jesus really meant, son of god or not.
The Golden Rule really sums up everything good about religion for me. All the rest is fluff. And we seem to struggle getting the Golden Rule right, so maybe we should strip away the rest and concentrate.
What is the point of me saying anyting here? You guys really know how to make someone feel like crap. Intended or not, the effect is the same.
However, I forgive you.
You can do better than that Clog.
You're passionate about this stuff. Explain why. Make the case.
I don't come to my views without decades of thinking behind them, but still my thoughts remain malleable.
I will not put anything forth on this particular post, but perhaps I will start some word documents that journal my journey. This will take time, but I will start them. I am glad that your mind is not Fort Knoxs.
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